96 replies to this topic

[Chewie]

What concerns me the most is that all furture new recruits won't have a warranted officer to go out with when they arrive on area....so how the hell do they get trained up considering the majority of training specials do are on area. Not sure about other forces but we have a rule that a non-independent special cannot be crewed with a PCSO as they are completely different roles. How can a PCSO train a specila up concerning warranted powers?

This doesn't make sense - the OP says that Warks are moving all Specials to SNT's, but your post implies it's only new Specials that are being transferred (your quote "how the hell do they get trained up considering the majority of training specials do are on area?") If all Specials are being transferred, then the tutors will also be on SNT, and will be able to take out the probationer SC's as necessary.

[candles]

Warwickshire are going through rather big changes at the moment, they haven't completely sorted out what they are doing with Regulars - What this usually means is, they haven't really decided what to do with Specials yet.

Essentially, nothing is set in stone until your line management tell you what is going on - even then, it'll probably be a little fluid! I suggest don't panic just yet, let the waters settle and then panic

[special1965]

On any given shift, Response is ALWAYS short of man-power - simple FACT.
Given the cuts that are being made at the moment and the economic climate the ways it is, Response will undoubtedly - for all forces across the board - end up with even fewer officers. Yes Response is more demanding than working on a Neighborhood Team, but in my opinion considering Specials are the only officers who are being recruited at the moment, any Response team and for that matter, any force, should be looking at getting as many 'hands on deck' as possible, and I would say any force should ideally be looking at giving Specials MORE roles within the police, not fewer!

Quite right although I am sure this will not be popular with some eh?

In fact I was told at the weekend by one of our Reg Supt's, that due to the recruitment freeze that will last for at least two years, 15% of the current regular Officers will be gone within that time due to natural wastage and an end to the 30+ scheme, and will have to be replaced as best as possible with SC's.
SC's are on as many IRT shifts as SCT shifts, they will also be attached to specialist units, in fact 2 are already on Traffic.
He also said, 'Echo' status seems to be the holy grail for some reason, but unfortunately for those dinosaurs in the service who think that response driving is something that only they are worthy of, are in for a big shock shortly.
I just hope that if I change shifts for some reason and go out with someone I don't know they don't think I am a liability just because they don't know me and Im a SC? but if they do they are in for a surprise I suppose!!

[Sam Vimes]

All aboard the rumour mill.

[zippyRN]

Hours will drop, people will resign (especially those with long service who have routines and strong relationships built up with the response teams) leading to a decimation of experience amongst the specials <snip>

the cynic in me says this is in fact the aim to remove / 'test' those who are long in service as Specials and allow the SMT to rebuild the SC in Warks how they want...

rather than being open and honest as other Forces and Service Delivery orientated Voluntary Organisations have ...

[candles]

The realist in me thinks SMT don't know what they want to do with SCs...

[EdenWorcester]

This doesn't make sense - the OP says that Warks are moving all Specials to SNT's, but your post implies it's only new Specials that are being transferred (your quote "how the hell do they get trained up considering the majority of training specials do are on area?") If all Specials are being transferred, then the tutors will also be on SNT, and will be able to take out the probationer SC's as necessary.

Noting the special constabulary is made up of people who volunteer their free time, what if the tutors (who are volunteer specials) cannot make the shift that the probationer special is free on?

[Chewie]

Noting the special constabulary is made up of people who volunteer their free time, what if the tutors (who are volunteer specials) cannot make the shift that the probationer special is free on?

We're lucky in that most of the Specials tutors in my station are the officers that are in every couple of days or so, so there's generally always at least one tutor about, but that's a fair point - not everyone works the same hours.

[Derby-dude]

Does anyone know if Derbyshire specials can work on response? If they are only aloud on SNT teams does this mean if you can't work in the day it's pointless becoming a special?

[Hotlush]

Does anyone know if Derbyshire specials can work on response? If they are only aloud on SNT teams does this mean if you can't work in the day it's pointless becoming a special?

In D Division; Yes they can, but SNT work till 12pm anyway including PCSOs.
I think what they ideally would like to see is Specials addressing SNT issues but without being tied down to a single SNT area.

[special1965]

All aboard the rumour mill.

As stated 2 specials are already over with Traffic now, up until a couple of months ago that was unheard of, sorry if that doesn't suit you!

Edited by special1965, 22 February 2011 - 03:05 PM.

[Better than Jeebs]

Northumbria are great with Specials, I was told in my last briefing we can go now whereever we want, response, npt or even an asg. And that's the way it should be, when we give our time up for free. I'm based on a neighbourhood team and I occasionally do response shifts, and I like it this way as I get the mixture of both.

Ermintrude, I think your issue with the special not getting stuck in is really unpreventable, you can have all the training in the world, but theres nothing to say you wont freeze the first time it kicks off. My day job is a lifeguard, and unfortunately you see it happen there aswell.

[GJB]

Ermintrude, I think your issue with the special not getting stuck in is really unpreventable, you can have all the training in the world, but theres nothing to say you wont freeze the first time it kicks off. My day job is a lifeguard, and unfortunately you see it happen there aswell.

On my first few shifts, I tried to step back and let the regs do their job. I don't want to start wading into the middle of a situation I don't understand, and doing something completely wrong.

Of course I wouldn't have hesitated to get stuck in if I was needed, but I think one or two thought I was scared/incompetent/lazy rather than just cautious. I've overheard one or two passing comments that indicate some lack of mutual respect, but nothing offensive/personal. Maybe they expected more experience/confidence, or maybe they've had bad experiences with other specials and my cautiousness has reinforced that.

I'm now having to work extra hard to prove to those regs that actually I am capable, but it's difficult when virtually all the shifts I've worked have been dead! (Unlike Train Driver <_<) This makes it extra frustrating when everyone's just sitting around watching TV, and I just want to be out there learning the ropes, so that when something comes around I can get out there.


Point being - as a Special, it's quite hard to prove your worth unless you get a lucky mix of jobs, trust and responsibility. So I could easily imagine whole stations, areas/divisions or even forces having very little regard for the potential usefulness of Specials, unless they're utilised to their full potential.

I think that (after a few weeks' intro) new Specials need a lot of response shifts to be able to build that level of confidence (over a reasonable period of time) to the point where we could deal with anything no matter which team we were on. They can't expect us to learn the same range of skills from six months of housing estate foot patrols.

[Sam Vimes]

They can't expect us to learn the same range of skills from six months of housing estate foot patrols.

And there from the horses mouth is the opinion of what you perceive SNT to all be about, used to justify why it should be response work you do.

If you think all you'll do is walk round a housing estate I'd wager you've had very little to do with SNT work up until now, and should maybe stick your head round the door a bit more often.

[candles]

The point is; SNT is very different from Police Service to Police Service, and then even within a particular Police Service it would be different from area to area!

So Ermintrude is right, your SNT might be doing great things, so check in before making any judgements...

[Midsman1]

As stated 2 specials are already over with Traffic now, up until a couple of months ago that was unheard of, sorry if that doesn't suit you!

I think you have slightly wandered off and quoted Ermintrude for no apparent reason, i dont think he was knocking your earlier post but merely stating that currently nothing in the case of Warks Pol has been decided and it is still very much in the early stages and therefore this is mere speculation hence "all aboard the rumour mill"

The point is; SNT is very different from Police Service to Police Service, and then even within a particular Police Service it would be different from area to area!

So Ermintrude is right, your SNT might be doing great things, so check in before making any judgements...

Very good point made by Ermintrude and Candles, people are quick to judge what SNT work is all about, Candles and I are technically SNT officers but we dont wander around our local council estate aimlessly each shift! You need to speak to your line managers so that info can go up to the SMT about what you can do and and put together useful teams of SC's that can get some results or have a positive and noticeable impact!

[SoapyW]

The point is; SNT is very different from Police Service to Police Service

This sums the argument up for me, we're having a national discussion when things can vary so much. For me after two years on NPT I would be ready to leave if it were not for the option of moving to a different role. That may not be the case if I were stationed elsewhere or had different supervision, but for my here and now it is the case. To the OP, suck it and see. All you can do is give it your best shot and make the most of it, if its not for you take your time elsewhere.

[pathca]

Every SNT/NPT will be different even in the division I live/ work in we have everything from really rural to totally built up,from very high class to areas of social deprevation.Each area will be policed in its' own way and one size does not fit all. A special may find that a NPT actually is more satisfying and more real police work than dealing with the fith drunken fight of the night on response

[Smiley Culture]

To the OP, suck it and see. All you can do is give it your best shot and make the most of it, if its not for you take your time elsewhere.

There's your answer in a nutshell, I'd say.

[GJB]

And there from the horses mouth is the opinion of what you perceive SNT to all be about, used to justify why it should be response work you do.

If you think all you'll do is walk round a housing estate I'd wager you've had very little to do with SNT work up until now, and should maybe stick your head round the door a bit more often.

Sorry, I didn't explain that very clearly. I wasn't saying that SNT consisted of housing-estate foot patrols.

I was saying that if some force decided to use Specials for nothing but housing-estate foot patrols (which it sounds like does occasionally happen), then that would be a waste, as they would never learn the skills required to deal with things, and would never become a competent and useful resource.


In the rural BTP we don't exactly have an SNT, for PCs and SCs it's generally just mobile and foot patrols, which both consist of patrolling and response. Even whole-shift mobile patrols can often result in nothing, so I've had my fair share of quiet shifts.

From my experience in the BTP, the best shifts are ones which are varied, different, and in which I learn something new. The least-good shifts are the ones in which nothing happens, or we're just hanging around waiting for nothing to happen.

So I personally believe that you need a fairly-intensive, fairly-varied first few months to be able to build up your skill set and be able to be effective on your own (whether on response, patrol or other duties). Doing nothing other than quiet patrolling would hugely delay your development as a useful resource.

The point is; SNT is very different from Police Service to Police Service, and then even within a particular Police Service it would be different from area to area!

Absolutely spot on. If a force put specials on SNT duties, it could still be very varied, interesting and useful. Alternatively, if you're constantly on shifts/duties/patrols in which nothing happens, then that would be a waste, as it'd take you years to learn what a busier special would be exposed to within weeks.

[Ryan_01]

I got put on response on my 3rd shift, had two blue light runs as well that night. Didn't really faze me whatsoever, and I felt more than capable of stepping upto the mark if I needed to in a situation.

It just entirely depends who is on when I come in then that's what il work. Last week there was a knife/drug operation so I was at Lime Street pretty much all night. The week before I was out mobile over the Wirral and then Liverpool.

I initially had a tutor in place with the NPT however after speaking with the Sgt, when I come into work now I team up with an experienced officer who is on duty as well.

Edited by Ryan_01, 23 February 2011 - 09:21 PM.

[bluebear999]

Hello all. Nice to see that the thread has been well and truly thrashed out. What is apparent, every force is different, especially how its local policing teams work. I can only comment on my force. I see that some teams are really busy and deal with all sorts of police work and that is great and something i would enjoy. My team is likely to only deal with minor crimes and appointments made by the public to see the police. General patrols wouldn't really be included in the work, unless it had something to do with a crime or complaint. As you have guessed my team is in a fairly quiet area and as a result working on reactive is the ONLY chance you get to increase your experience. But as stated I will wait and see what happens..

Edited by bluebear999, 27 February 2011 - 01:01 AM.