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Using someone elses credit card


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#1 BristolSam

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 02:27 PM

Im sure this has been covered before but I can't find the thread anywhere?

If someone gives you their credit card to use in a supermarket and you have to either sign for it, or enter a pin code, are you commiting any offence?

Personally I think no as long as they have given you permission to use it, and by signing for it you are simply signing that you have authority to use the card. However my friends seem to disagree and think its fraud as you are misrepresenting who you are?

#2 adslegend

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 02:47 PM

It's not fraud because it's not dishonest if you are using it with someone's permission.

#3 x024684427

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 03:09 PM

I think it just breaches the contract of the bank and the card holder

#4 BristolSam

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 03:14 PM

It's not fraud because it's not dishonest if you are using it with someone's permission.


Exactly, I was thinking along the same lines of theft ie dishonestly appropriating etc. There is no dishonesty if you have permission?

As mentioned I think it could simply be a breach of contract with your card holder.

#5 E29NP

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 03:19 PM

I think it just breaches the contract of the bank and the card holder


That's exactly what it is! nothing else.

I let my wife use mine quite frequently when I cant get to the shops. Because of chip & pin, nobody bothers to check the name on the card anymore.

Edited by pmtts, 25 September 2010 - 03:21 PM.


#6 Obsidian_Eclipse

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 09:04 PM

The only problem being if fraud is ever committed in connection to your account. When you answer the question "Have you ever given your card to another person or revealed your pin number?" and you say "Yes" (or worse still you lie and are caught out) you could end up not being covered for the £3000 that lands on your overdraft, contrary to what many people think some banks will thoroughly investigate claims/insurance and gather CCTV footage from various stores, supermarkets, casinos or petrol stations, some tills will even itemise the last four digits of the debit/credit card along with the CCTV.

Both myself and my wife have had fraud happen to us. Around £3k each and they did trawl through CCTV. I would imagine even if they had the faintest whiff that someone else had been using our cards (with permission) they would have just have left the charges on and expected us to pay. We never ever disclose PIN details, not even to each other. If we want to share accounts then banks will issue a named 3rd party card.

#7 GaryW

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 11:37 PM

I think you are both right but there is nothing the bank or credit card company can or will do about it. If I loan my bank card to my wife and disclose my pin to her then *I* am in breach of the contract with the Bank which states that I shouldn't do such a thing.

Where it get's interesting is if my wife writes the pin number down then loses card + pin. If someone else gets hold of, and uses the card, then I could be liable because I disclosed it in the first place.

#8 foxtrot2008

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:32 AM

Agree with the above, but it's also worth saying that it's not clever to be found with other peoples cards Posted Image

#9 bensonby

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 11:09 AM

Yep, I've caught people with other people's cards before and the conversation goes something like this:

"does so-and-so know you have this?"

"yes"

"what's their tel no?"

(rings no - if there is no reply they get nicked)

"hello so-and-so, does this person have something of yours? What sort of card is it? Etc etc"

"i'm arresting you on sus of HSG..."

#10 Chewie

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 06:34 PM

"i'm arresting you on sus of HSG..."

HSG?

#11 foxtrot2008

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 06:35 PM

HSG?


Handling Stolen Goods... at a guess...

#12 Chewie

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 06:37 PM

Handling Stolen Goods... at a guess...

Aha, sounds good! Cheers! :rolleyes:

#13 ninetyone

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 03:30 PM

If it's a credit card then the bank's credit is being used in a way they do not permit - so would it not be fraud? I wouldn't imagine this would stretch to a debit card, because that is (pretty much) your money.

#14 bill56_uk

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:58 PM

Threads a couple of months old but I agree that there would be no offences committed if a persons has authority to use someone else's card. For the offence to be complete there would need to be a false representation, i.e falsely representing that you had permission to use a credit card when you did not, if you had permission there would be no false representation and as said it would not be dishonest.

#15 prolixia

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 10:55 AM

Threads a couple of months old but I agree that there would be no offences committed if a persons has authority to use someone else's card. For the offence to be complete there would need to be a false representation, i.e falsely representing that you had permission to use a credit card when you did not, if you had permission there would be no false representation and as said it would not be dishonest.


Would there not be a false representation to the retailer that you were the owner of the card (and therefore the person to whom the bank had issued it)?

If I walk into Tesco and say "This isn't my card and that's not my signature on it, but I would like to use it to pay for my shopping please" then I wouldn't expect them to let me to use it to pay. So when I quietly slip it into the chip and pin reader and tap in the code then by omitting to say anything I'm falsely representing to the shop that it's my card. Clearly there's a financial gain in it for me, because otherwise I'd have to pay myself.

If I told the assistant immediately that it wasn't my card but they were still happy for me to use it (and I had permission from the card owner) then I guess it would be rather different.

#16 RequiemSC

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:57 PM

Sorry to drag up a month old thread...
I ask this question in my capacity as a Customer Service Advisor and am aware of the forum disclaimer:
I work in retail, and my boss took a card off of a gentleman because the card was in the name of MRS....
He says it was his wifes card, whether he had permission is unknown.

Was my boss in the right, retaining and later cutting up this card??

And has an offence been committed by the gentleman....or my boss for that matter??

#17 AnthonyB

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:07 PM

Well it certainly wasn't his to destroy, not unless he'd contacted the card company and got their consent as cards are often still the property of the issuing company.

#18 Burnsy2023

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:35 AM

Well it certainly wasn't his to destroy, not unless he'd contacted the card company and got their consent as cards are often still the property of the issuing company.


Indeed. He should have returned it to the card issuer at worst. Not sure whether he has the right to retain though.

#19 gordon

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:00 PM

Some credit card companies used to offer a £50 reward for the retailer if they managed to take a stolen credit card out of circulation, I expect they still do.

I also expect that in the Credit Cards Terms of Use there is a clause that allows anyone with 'authority' to hold onto any credit card that they believe is not being used by the owner, and the retailers agreement with the credit card company probably also gives them the authority to act on behalf of the credit card company on these occassions. If the wife had came in to collect the card with ID he probably would have returned it to her.

#20 hampshiresaint

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:59 PM

Aha, sounds good! Cheers! :)


What if the surname was the same? Say you stopped a 70 year old Mrs Smith but the card was Mr Smith. Mrs Smith informs you Mr Smith is her husband and he does not have a mobile but has given her permission to do you weekly shopping.

#21 Paradox

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 01:19 PM

What if the surname was the same? Say you stopped a 70 year old Mrs Smith but the card was Mr Smith. Mrs Smith informs you Mr Smith is her husband and he does not have a mobile but has given her permission to do you weekly shopping.

It's still not the same person to whom the card belongs. Just because they're related doesn't necessarily mean they're happy with eachother using either of their cards.

#22 Burnsy2023

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 01:39 PM

It's still not the same person to whom the card belongs. Just because they're related doesn't necessarily mean they're happy with eachother using either of their cards.


Or that the card provider is happy with the husband using their property.

#23 Paradox

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 01:44 PM

Or that the card provider is happy with the husband using their property.

Indeed. Which I imagine is even more serious.

#24 Marricked

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:02 AM

Would there not be a false representation to the retailer that you were the owner of the card (and therefore the person to whom the bank had issued it)?

If I walk into Tesco and say "This isn't my card and that's not my signature on it, but I would like to use it to pay for my shopping please" then I wouldn't expect them to let me to use it to pay. So when I quietly slip it into the chip and pin reader and tap in the code then by omitting to say anything I'm falsely representing to the shop that it's my card. Clearly there's a financial gain in it for me, because otherwise I'd have to pay myself.

If I told the assistant immediately that it wasn't my card but they were still happy for me to use it (and I had permission from the card owner) then I guess it would be rather different.


Quite right, there is a false representation to the cashier/whoever is serving you. You can also make a false representation to a machine/computer, such as self scan machine, can't remember the precedating cases though.

#25 dixonofdockgreen

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:27 PM

There is a binding contract between the card issuer and the person to whom the card is issued, the card holder. There is never any implied permission from the issuer for the card to be used in any way, by anyone other than the card holder. So, it follows that the card holder cannot give permission for someone else to use the card and in so doing is in breach of contract (civil matter).

Fraud, on the other hand, is mainly concerned with gaining a dishonest advantage, and I doubt it would be the case in this instance as the 'dishonest' part is a bit flimsy to say the least. If my elderly mother gave me her card and PIN to get cash from a cashpoint because she was too poorly to go, I would be getting her cash and giving it to her, no dishonesty committed, but the bank may take a dim view of it.

As a former store detective trainer, I know that all card issuers instruct retailers etc to try and retain the card if at all possible, without putting themselves at risk. When sending cards back to issuers, the instruction is to cut the card in half.

Edited by dixonofdockgreen, 07 January 2011 - 12:28 PM.