45 replies to this topic

[Mr Potato Head]

Vetting would be cheaper if the police adopted a recruitment technique where-by the used thier cadets as police officers in the future.

[okeeg001]

I know our unit staff think the same, they want to try and ease the transitional process from Cadet to SC. Whether or not anything will be put across to the powers at HQ, who knows.

[carty23]

I remember the sergeant I had said that a lot of cadets do apply successfully to the specials in her experience, on the other hand some don't make the grade.

No easy way though for the cadets at MerPol, still have to apply as though you are an outsider.

[okeeg001]

I remember the sergeant I had said that a lot of cadets do apply successfully to the specials in her experience, on the other hand some don't make the grade.

No easy way though for the cadets at MerPol, still have to apply as though you are an outsider.

Obviously cadets would have to pass the interview etc but it would be nice to have a fast track system.

[jaysec]

I remember the sergeant I had said that a lot of cadets do apply successfully to the specials in her experience, on the other hand some don't make the grade.

No easy way though for the cadets at MerPol, still have to apply as though you are an outsider.

Same for the Met.

[Mr Potato Head]

Same for the Met.

But I think those that have been working within the police like Cadets get a better look in then those that are applying from other jobs.

[jaysec]

But I think those that have been working within the police like Cadets get a better look in then those that are applying from other jobs.

Oh no doubt, to what ever it maybe, cadets/other volunteer work must carry some weight when you apply.

[SCtin-tin]

Oh no doubt, to what ever it maybe, cadets/other volunteer work must carry some weight when you apply.

I hope someone reads this and sees where we are coming from! I do think we should have vetting to that of a SC, as this would allow us to be fast tracked in... force dependant!

I hope my position as a Cadet and my rank within my unit has some influence over the Job when I look to apply, meaning I can get in faster one of my mates went from Head Cadet to PC in 8 months , apparently the fact he was a head cadet played a VERY big part!!! He's already nearing the end of his Probation.

Edited by PYMetCadet, 20 April 2010 - 09:56 AM.

[carty23]

I can't remember which force it was but it was one in the South East area IIRC, and i'm sure they needed GCSE's to commence the course and had to do the PIRT, so obviously if they pass this for the cadets then I don't really see the point in them having to sit through it again for when they apply for the specials/regs.

I do agree that time spent in the cadets/volunteer role should be taken into consideration, but it's how? What's this "weight" you referred to in your post Metcadet?

Regardless of any cadet/volunteer service, I for one definitely think that they should have to sit through the same interactive exercises, the same written tests and the same interview if they apply for a regular. And to be honest if the cadets did do some sort of fast track system into the regulars that was a little lenient as opposed to applying externally, then I wouldn't really feel proud of myself to be a regular (if I became one through an insider scheme), knowing that I haven't been through the same process as everyone else. I'm all for individual competition so having an easier route I wouldn't really like.

It could also make the cadet system seem worthless and just an easy way into becoming a police officer.

Edited by carty23, 20 April 2010 - 06:43 PM.

[Mr Potato Head]

I can't remember which force it was but it was one in the South East area IIRC, and i'm sure they needed GCSE's to commence the course and had to do the PIRT, so obviously if they pass this for the cadets then I don't really see the point in them having to sit through it again for when they apply for the specials/regs.

I do agree that time spent in the cadets/volunteer role should be taken into consideration, but it's how? What's this "weight" you referred to in your post Metcadet?

Regardless of any cadet/volunteer service, I for one definitely think that they should have to sit through the same interactive exercises, the same written tests and the same interview if they apply for a regular. And to be honest if the cadets did do some sort of fast track system into the regulars that was a little lenient as opposed to applying externally, then I wouldn't really feel proud of myself to be a regular (if I became one through an insider scheme), knowing that I haven't been through the same process as everyone else. I'm all for individual competition so having an easier route I wouldn't really like.

It could also make the cadet system seem worthless and just an easy way into becoming a police officer.

There are many things you do in the police cadets that allow you to understand and carry out most procedures that police officers follow. In my opinion its just a complete waste to teach cadets legislation, powers of arrest, make us perform in role plays as if we were at Hendon and then not give us more consideration. I don't think people are saying that cadets should skip EVERYTHING but when we do most of what it takes to become a police officer at cadet meetings it kind of makes sense to skip some parts of the recruitment process.

Tonight we had a hour long session on level 1 policing and once we finish that level we move onto more complicated areas of policing work. In a few weeks we will be policing events, etc...there are so many things that cadets do which should be taken into consideration when applying.

[SCtin-tin]

There are many things you do in the police cadets that allow you to understand and carry out most procedures that police officers follow. In my opinion its just a complete waste to teach cadets legislation, powers of arrest, make us perform in role plays as if we were at Hendon and then not give us more consideration. I don't think people are saying that cadets should skip EVERYTHING but when we do most of what it takes to become a police officer at cadet meetings it kind of makes sense to skip some parts of the recruitment process.

Tonight we had a hour long session on level 1 policing and once we finish that level we move onto more complicated areas of policing work. In a few weeks we will be policing events, etc...there are so many things that cadets do which should be taken into consideration when applying.

I agree totally with VPCMP. It was the way it used to be aswell, before the cut backs in the early ninties... Well it was for Met Cadets anyway...

[carty23]

There are many things you do in the police cadets that allow you to understand and carry out most procedures that police officers follow. In my opinion its just a complete waste to teach cadets legislation, powers of arrest, make us perform in role plays as if we were at Hendon and then not give us more consideration. I don't think people are saying that cadets should skip EVERYTHING but when we do most of what it takes to become a police officer at cadet meetings it kind of makes sense to skip some parts of the recruitment process.

Tonight we had a hour long session on level 1 policing and once we finish that level we move onto more complicated areas of policing work. In a few weeks we will be policing events, etc...there are so many things that cadets do which should be taken into consideration when applying.

This may be the case down in the Met, but isn't replicated up and down the country in every cadet unit. Certainly not the one I was part of. I don't even see the point in cadets learning powers of arrest when they will never be able to exercise said powers whilst in the Cadets.

Like you mentioned in your post, you already have the privilege of performing role plays which will give you a taste of what it's like for when you apply and if you reach the assessment centre stage. Other people don't have this privilege, and if they want it they have to attend external assessment courses which are £100+

I still think that cadets should have exactly the same recruitment process as outside candidates, apart from the case I mentioned in my other post, which was that if Cadets have had to pass the PIRT to enter the cadets, then it seems pointless them having to do it again.

[okeeg001]

Well tonight I found out I passed my next level up vetting! So I can continue doing my Front Office work Good times.

[jaysec]

Well tonight I found out I passed my next level up vetting! So I can continue doing my Front Office work Good times.

OOh you do front office?
How you finding it?

[okeeg001]

OOh you do front office?
How you finding it?

Yeah I've been doing it for around a year now. Still love it! Know how to do nearly all of the tasks the front office staff deal with. Getting my PC access sorted as well

It's definitely a role that I would look into doing full time in the future.

[Mr Potato Head]

This may be the case down in the Met, but isn't replicated up and down the country in every cadet unit. Certainly not the one I was part of. I don't even see the point in cadets learning powers of arrest when they will never be able to exercise said powers whilst in the Cadets.

The whole point of the police cadets is to give young people an insight into the police and to help them continue a career within thier force area. What would you like to see the police cadets do? Surely it wouldn't be something totally irrelevant to policing.

Like you mentioned in your post, you already have the privilege of performing role plays which will give you a taste of what it's like for when you apply and if you reach the assessment centre stage. Other people don't have this privilege, and if they want it they have to attend external assessment courses which are £100+

I disagree. How is performing role plays at cadets privileged when I could do the exact same thing with friends or family? You don't necessarily have to pay £100 just to learn how to act in front of an examiner - just learn your competencies and read the scenario(s).

I still think that cadets should have exactly the same recruitment process as outside candidates, apart from the case I mentioned in my other post, which was that if Cadets have had to pass the PIRT to enter the cadets, then it seems pointless them having to do it again.

If cadets past the PIRT when they were say 14 and for one reason or another have lost thier literature and mathematics ability and were still allowed to carry on in the recruitment process wouldn't that be unfair? Wouldn't that be a discredit to the force - having someone who passed the PIRT for cadets at 14 but hasn't got the ability to write a report or work out simple calculations now they are in the force?

Edited by VPCMP, 22 April 2010 - 04:41 PM.

[okeeg001]

The whole point of the police cadets is to give young people an insight into the police and to help them continue a career within thier force area. What would you like to see the police cadets do? Surely it wouldn't be something totally irrelevant to policing.



I disagree. How is performing role plays at cadets privileged when I could do the exact same thing with friends or family? You don't necessarily have to pay £100 just to learn how to act in front of an examiner - just learn your competencies and read the scenario(s).



If cadets past the PIRT when they were say 14 and for one reason or another have lost thier literature and mathematics ability and were still allowed to carry on in the recruitment process wouldn't that be unfair? Wouldn't that be a discredit to the force - having someone who passed the PIRT for cadets at 14 but hasn't got the ability to write a report or work out simply calculations now they are in the force?

As much as I support cadets having an easy route into the Special Constabulary, I wouldn't support Cadets taking the PIRT at 14 that would just make the Cadet scheme a necessity to become a SC which is not what being a Cadet is all about. Not every cadet wants to be a SC but I think for those who do wish to become one they should have some perks. I think that if there was an easy route it would still have to have the PIRT, interview etc. But I think the application process could be quicker.

[Mr Potato Head]

As much as I support cadets having an easy route into the Special Constabulary, I wouldn't support Cadets taking the PIRT at 14 that would just make the Cadet scheme a necessity to become a SC which is not what being a Cadet is all about. Not every cadet wants to be a SC but I think for those who do wish to become one they should have some perks. I think that if there was an easy route it would still have to have the PIRT, interview etc. But I think the application process could be quicker.

Your right, the cadet system is not just about joining the police but I'm sure 99.9% of serving cadets do have some interest in doing police-related work. This debate we're having isn't just about what cadets want - we're actually taking into consideration the reports of how the police service are trying to save money and making suggestions on how they can do that. Training cadets at weekly meetings is the only way I can see the likes of the MetPol being able to save money on the recruitment process and taking the strain off other departments. Of course, leave the door open for other applicants but if there is money to be saved why not save it by training cadets?

I agree with you on the PIRT point as well, mainly because the joining age for cadets is 14 and its likely by the time they come to apply those that have filled in the PIRT may have lost the ability to do the simplest of additions or subtractions.

Edited by VPCMP, 22 April 2010 - 04:47 PM.

[carty23]

The whole point of the police cadets is to give young people an insight into the police and to help them continue a career within thier force area. What would you like to see the police cadets do? Surely it wouldn't be something totally irrelevant to policing.

Police cadets can do various things, such as promoting crime prevention, assisting in community and charitable events, learning about the different types of drugs and their effects, taking part in events such as the D of E etc. The list in endless. Teaching cadets the power of arrest is a bit like giving cabin crew pilot training, but not letting them fly the plane as they aren't employed as a pilot.

I disagree. How is performing role plays at cadets privileged when I could do the exact same thing with friends or family? You don't necessarily have to pay £100 just to learn how to act in front of an examiner - just learn your competencies and read the scenario(s).

Well this might be my own personal opinion but I don't think I could be serious doing it with friends and family. Doing it with people you don't know (and you in particular with people at Hendon) makes it more professional.

If cadets past the PIRT when they were say 14 and for one reason or another have lost thier literature and mathematics ability and were still allowed to carry on in the recruitment process wouldn't that be unfair? Wouldn't that be a discredit to the force - having someone who passed the PIRT for cadets at 14 but hasn't got the ability to write a report or work out simple calculations now they are in the force?

And why would people automatically just lose their "Literature and mathematics ability," unless they had some sort of brain damage? Once things are learnt they are learnt. I haven't said my 1 - 12 timestables since year 6 but ask me a mathematical sum in the 1 - 12 timestables and I could give you the answer at a click of a finger, even though i've never recited them for nearly 6 years. I could also do cos/sin/tan, simultaneous equations etc and I haven't done maths since I left school last May. And to be honest you could say well what if an officer passed the PIRT at 19 but 2 years later lost their literature and mathematical ability? By no means am I mocking the PIRT by my next point, but having done the practice questions in various recruitment books I've got, it's hardly rocket science and I could have done it years ago and still passed (IMO).

------------------

This thread is way off topic from the OP, (and I admit to contributing to it going off topic), but can we now veer back on course. Of course, if you wish to continue the debate whether or not Police Cadets should get accelerated recruitment into the regulars/specials, then by all means create a new thread

Edited by carty23, 22 April 2010 - 05:15 PM.

[Mr Potato Head]

Police cadets can do various things, such as promoting crime prevention, assisting in community and charitable events, learning about the different types of drugs and their effects, taking part in events such as the D of E etc. The list in endless. Teaching cadets the power of arrest is a bit like giving cabin crew pilot training, but not letting them fly the plane as they aren't employed as a pilot.

And most of what you mentioned is police-related so your point is?

And why would people automatically just lose their "Literature and mathematics ability," unless they had some sort of brain damage? Once things are learnt they are learnt. I haven't said my 1 - 12 timestables since year 6 but ask me a mathematical sum in the 1 - 12 timestables and I could give you the answer at a click of a finger, even though i've never recited them for nearly 6 years. I could also do cos/sin/tan, simultaneous equations etc and I haven't done maths since I left school last May. And to be honest you could say well what if an officer passed the PIRT at 19 but 2 years later lost their literature and mathematical ability? By no means am I mocking the PIRT by my next point, but having done the practice questions if various recruitment books I've got, it's hardly rocket science and I could have done it years ago and still passed (IMO).

You never know, perhaps that person who took the PIRT back when they were 14 have not been educated prior to thier application - far-fetched but it could happen. You may feel your mathematical ability is top notch but you have to take into consideration those people who have conditions such as dyslexia. Your idea of taking the PIRT when starting cadets is along the same lines of my idea as they are both part of the recruitment process - I guess this debate is one of those that will go around in circles so I'm agreeing to disagree.

[carty23]

To answer your original question, vetting may happen in some forces and may not in others (basic checks may be carried out).

Everything is force specific when it comes down to cadets, including the entry age, requirements, the process (including vetting/checks), and what you actually do at sessions - in some cases this can even be BCU specific.

Seeing as you ignored my request to get the thread back on topic i'll be closing this thread as it's gone off course and opinions have been given on the vetting issue.

Should you wish to open a new topic with regards to the accelerated recruitment, then by all means do, and I will reply to your above points in that thread.

In the words of David, "Thanks to all that have contributed."