Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

MOP Powers of Detention & Use of Force


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
10 replies to this topic

#1 Viper

Viper

    Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,034 posts

Posted 24 August 2009 - 01:23 AM

What are the offences that a MOP can detain an offender in Scotland for?

I understand there is no definition of arrest other than Constable's (unlike here in England/Wales); I would appreciate if any one could quote the definition of the detention in the Scottish common law.

Many thanks for your help. :unsure:

Edited by Viper, 24 August 2009 - 01:25 AM.


#2 Nelson

Nelson

    Vice Admiral of the White

  • Lifetime Power Users+
  • 2,216 posts

Posted 24 August 2009 - 02:24 AM

What are the offences that a MOP can detain an offender in Scotland for?

I understand there is no definition of arrest other than Constable's (unlike here in England/Wales); I would appreciate if any one could quote the definition of the detention in the Scottish common law.

Many thanks for your help. :unsure:


Detention and arrest are two completely seperate things.

A constable may detain a person on suspicion of committing a crime punishable by imprisonment for up to 6 hours in order to carry out further investigation into the alleged offence. As far as I'm aware an ordinary MOP does not have this. This is different to a constable arresting someone, we only arrest if there is sufficient evidence to charge someone.

However, any citizen who witnesses a crime (other than a minor one) may arrest the criminal, but cannot arrest on suspicion or on information from others, nor can they open lockfast places to make an arrest. Where the crime is a breach of the peace, a member of the public may try to stop it, but cannot apprehend the offender. Once an arrest has been made the police must be contacted as soon as possible and the person handed over to police.

In a nutshell, but it's very late and I'm sure more in depth discussion will follow.

#3 Viper

Viper

    Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,034 posts

Posted 24 August 2009 - 02:46 AM

Detention and arrest are two completely seperate things.

A constable may detain a person on suspicion of committing a crime punishable by imprisonment for up to 6 hours in order to carry out further investigation into the alleged offence. As far as I'm aware an ordinary MOP does not have this. This is different to a constable arresting someone, we only arrest if there is sufficient evidence to charge someone.

However, any citizen who witnesses a crime (other than a minor one) may arrest the criminal, but cannot arrest on suspicion or on information from others, nor can they open lockfast places to make an arrest. Where the crime is a breach of the peace, a member of the public may try to stop it, but cannot apprehend the offender. Once an arrest has been made the police must be contacted as soon as possible and the person handed over to police.

In a nutshell, but it's very late and I'm sure more in depth discussion will follow.



Thank you for your reply, I am very well aware what's detention what is arrest :p , but I wanted the have the DEFINITION of detention in Scottish Law as Arrest is not defined in Scottish law for members of public.


I am aware it's totally different there comparing here in England and I am keen to to find out how things work up there.

I would love to see the quotations from the actual law.

I have very little/no knowledge of the Scottish law but I was led to believe that there is no definition of Arrest powers for MOPS in Scotland but to detain using force necessary?

Thank you again for reply as its nearly 4AM; you really deserve a ps.com medal. :unsure:

#4 Nelson

Nelson

    Vice Admiral of the White

  • Lifetime Power Users+
  • 2,216 posts

Posted 24 August 2009 - 03:26 PM

Thank you for your reply, I am very well aware what's detention what is arrest :p , but I wanted the have the DEFINITION of detention in Scottish Law as Arrest is not defined in Scottish law for members of public.


I am aware it's totally different there comparing here in England and I am keen to to find out how things work up there.

I would love to see the quotations from the actual law.

I have very little/no knowledge of the Scottish law but I was led to believe that there is no definition of Arrest powers for MOPS in Scotland but to detain using force necessary?

Thank you again for reply as its nearly 4AM; you really deserve a ps.com medal. :unsure:


Our constables powers of detention are not common law, they are statute and come from Section 14 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995 and are as follows:

(1) Where a constable has reasonable grounds for suspecting that a person has committed or is committing an offence punishable by imprisonment, the constable may, for the purpose of facilitating the carrying out of investigations—

(a) into the offence; and

(b) as to whether criminal proceedings should be instigated against the person,

detain that person and take him as quickly as is reasonably practicable to a police station or other premises and may thereafter for that purpose take him to any other place and, subject to the following provisions of this section, the detention may continue at the police station or, as the case may be, the other premises or place.

(2) Detention under subsection (1) above shall be terminated not more than six hours after it begins or (if earlier)—

(a) when the person is arrested;

(b) when he is detained in pursuance of any other enactment; or

© where there are no longer such grounds as are mentioned in the said subsection (1),

and when a person has been detained under subsection (1) above, he shall be informed immediately upon the termination of his detention in accordance with this subsection that his detention has been terminated.

(3) Where a person has been released at the termination of a period of detention under subsection (1) above he shall not thereafter be detained, under that subsection, on the same grounds or on any grounds arising out of the same circumstances.

(4) Subject to subsection (5) below, where a person has previously been detained in pursuance of any other enactment, and is detained under subsection (1) above on the same grounds or on grounds arising from the same circumstances as those which led to his earlier detention, the period of six hours mentioned in subsection (2) above shall be reduced by the length of that earlier detention.

(5) Subsection (4) above shall not apply in relation to detention under section 41(3) of the [1989 c. 45.] Prisons (Scotland) Act 1989 (detention in relation to introduction etc. into prison of prohibited article), but where a person was detained under section 41(3) immediately prior to his detention under subsection (1) above the period of six hours mentioned in subsection (2) above shall be reduced by the length of that earlier detention.

(6) At the time when a constable detains a person under subsection (1) above, he shall inform the person of his suspicion, of the general nature of the offence which he suspects has been or is being committed and of the reason for the detention; and there shall be recorded—

(a) the place where detention begins and the police station or other premises to which the person is taken;

(b) any other place to which the person is, during the detention, thereafter taken;

© the general nature of the suspected offence;

(d) the time when detention under subsection (1) above begins and the time of the person’s arrival at the police station or other premises;

(e) the time when the person is informed of his rights in terms of subsection (9) below and of subsection (1)(b) of section 15 of this Act and the identity of the constable so informing him;

(f) where the person requests such intimation to be sent as is specified in section 15(1)(b) of this Act, the time when such request is—

(i) made;

(ii) complied with; and

(g) the time of the person’s release from detention or, where instead of being released he is arrested in respect of the alleged offence, the time of such arrest.

(7) Where a person is detained under subsection (1) above, a constable may—

(a) without prejudice to any relevant rule of law as regards the admissibility in evidence of any answer given, put questions to him in relation to the suspected offence;

(b) exercise the same powers of search as are available following an arrest.

(8) A constable may use reasonable force in exercising any power conferred by subsection (1), or by paragraph (b) of subsection (7), above.

(9) A person detained under subsection (1) above shall be under no obligation to answer any question other than to give his name and address, and a constable shall so inform him both on so detaining him and on arrival at the police station or other premises.


MOPs do not have a power of detention, by force or not, and there is therefore no definition. As I said in my previous post however, theydo have the right to perform a citizens arrest. There is no legal definition of it in statute anywhere, but what I've written above is verbatim from the training manual and general accepted as good practice.

#5 Viper

Viper

    Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,034 posts

Posted 24 August 2009 - 05:32 PM

Our constables powers of detention are not common law, they are statute and come from Section 14 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995 and are as follows:



Yes sure, perhaps I did not make myself clear; powers of detention is defined in the Scottish common law for citizens (I am not asking for definitions of detention or arrest powers given to the police constables)

MOPs do not have a power of detention, by force or not, and there is therefore no definition. As I said in my previous post however, theydo have the right to perform a citizens arrest. There is no legal definition of it in statute anywhere, but what I've written above is verbatim from the training manual and general accepted as good practice.


Hmmmmmmmmm; I understand now. Is there a case law we can dig out?

#6 Nelson

Nelson

    Vice Admiral of the White

  • Lifetime Power Users+
  • 2,216 posts

Posted 25 August 2009 - 06:41 AM

Yes sure, perhaps I did not make myself clear; powers of detention is defined in the Scottish common law for citizens (I am not asking for definitions of detention or arrest powers given to the police constables)


It is? What was the question again then? :)


Hmmmmmmmmm; I understand now. Is there a case law we can dig out?


Theres probably a whole load which show what can be justified and what can't but, it still won't provide a definition of detention for a normal citizen I don't think.

#7 eddtheduck

eddtheduck

    Learning the Ropes

  • Members
  • 149 posts

Posted 30 August 2009 - 01:08 AM

Actually just had the knowledge check for this at tulliallan and Nelson is correct, no power of detention for MOP's it is only the arrest powers relating to common law etc already mentioned which apply. It is an actual arrest which a citizen makes under scots law and not a detention.

#8 Lucozade

Lucozade

    Forum Legend

  • Members
  • 2,449 posts

Posted 30 August 2009 - 12:31 PM

Actually just had the knowledge check for this at tulliallan and Nelson is correct, no power of detention for MOP's it is only the arrest powers relating to common law etc already mentioned which apply. It is an actual arrest which a citizen makes under scots law and not a detention.

I take it Section 59, Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 didn't come up on your knowledge check... :)

#9 Nelson

Nelson

    Vice Admiral of the White

  • Lifetime Power Users+
  • 2,216 posts

Posted 30 August 2009 - 09:25 PM

Oh ho, typical curve ball there! I would have thought that was more or less a given, if someone was in my house you'd be damned sure I'd be grabbing them in one way or other! I'd imagine this is more there to cover any householders backside in case the defence get a bit stroppy about the means if his clients capture, rather than a specifically sort of "member of public quasi-arrest" scenario.

Ultimately, lots of MOPs 'detain' people until police arrive: Taxi drivers lock them in for non payment of fares, door staff hold folk if they think they've drugs on them, security officers collar shoplifters etc etc. I can't imagine anyone would need to have these powers laid down in legislation unless there was some case that fell foul of it. Ultimately the courts will view it as "upstanding citizens vs the accused in the dock".

#10 eddtheduck

eddtheduck

    Learning the Ropes

  • Members
  • 149 posts

Posted 04 September 2009 - 01:33 AM

lol good point, but isnt that a power of arrest for the occupier, pretty sure thats how its worded, so still technically not detention?

#11 Arbiter

Arbiter

    Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,865 posts

Posted 09 September 2010 - 09:00 PM

MoPs have a power of arrest which is derived from common law. A private citizen (just means citizen) may arrest any person who is:-
>Committing a serious crime and not merelyfor Breach of the Peace
>The private citizen must have witnessed the crime which has/is happening

As previously mentioned, in relation to S.59 CG(S)A1982, a citizen may detain a person who is committing a crime under S.50, 57 and 58 of this act when, the owner, tenant or occupier of any property in, upon, or in respect of, which an offence to which this section applies is being committed or any person authorised by him may apprehend any person whom the owner or, as the case may be, the tenant, occupier or authorised person finds committing that offence and detain the apprehended person until he can be delivered into the custody of a constable.